Hi all
No, not all woman are like that, but I am at a point in my new life after a 22 year miserable marriage to a Psychiatrists dream, I have come to terms with my part in that relationship. I put up with it, enabled it, rationalized it, but knew deep down something was terribly wrong with her.
Interesting that the woman who moved into your house and refused to move out, drew up tears and, I’m sure, a cock in bull story rather than leave and move on. My ex treated me like a POS, and actually enjoyed (smiled wide) telling me about her BF….It’s still hard to explain, but it was if she had been repressed all these years and was pleased to hurt me. I asked her to give it time and see what happened. She refused (big smile) “I’m moving on with my life.” She actually told me that I was so sad because for the first time she was standing on her own two feet….. I was still taken by surprise, but had the presence of mind to tell her “it’s about eff’ing time.”
Then, the very day of our divorce, all the things I asked her to consider: giving it time. Kick the can down the road. Telling her I felt like it was just a wrong thing” all came back to me in her own voice. Almost word for word.
She actually said “If you really love me, you’ll do the right thing.”
Ladies and Gents, it all became clear, and I divorced her.

Keeping my eyes and ears open is best thing I could do for myself at the age of 54. They are all out there and it takes real guts to see it and walk. They call it “baggage.” I call it being self aware.

Hi

Yes, now being in the dating world, I see what the real world is for the vast majority of woman I have come to know. A few career teachers, a dentist and two woman who worked full time with significantly handicapped children with zero help from their ex husbands who were “men boys” drunks, lazy, or simply didn’t take their vows seriously.
I must be honest, if I were faced working full time with full responsibility for a sick or handicapped child would be well beyond what I feel I could cope with.
One woman I am seeing is a full time teaching assistant (15 years) who had to carry her husband’s addiction on her back and ignored completing her bachelors degree to become a certified art teacher….Meaning she makes less than half of what a teacher makes. She also cleaned houses, painted, taught private art classes until she sadly discovered that even steel breaks.
These stories are very raw reminders that the relationship I was in was very much one sided, selfish, and abusive. Even to this day, my ex behaves as if certain things I used to provide her are still her entitlement. God love her, she really has no idea she’s even doing it.

Yes, the real issue with me was the guilt, confusion, frustration I carried for years believing I was supposed to take care of my ex wife in a way I wouldn’t permit if my own children behaved the same way.

Bravo!!!!
You have nerves of steel. I could have never done what you had the guts to actually do. I really have to hand it to you to live the hypocrisy. Of course she left lickty split!!!

I have to ask a few questions. When you asked your wife to work and cut down on your nervous exhaustion in progress, was her answer silence? Did she have a plan or was it the Mexican standoff? Did she shovel the guilt manipulation at you?

I can assure you (for me anyway) it never ends. The entitlement is so ingrained it’s almost invisible……and it’s taken me awhile to stand back. The word no is actually a whole sentence. Amazing, but I’m still tugged to fix her problems, and feel like the king of the world when she pretends to pay attention to me whatsoever.

I hope you are relieved?

Good wishes,

Tom

Some Judges won’t. However, my current female friend has been divorced 10 years, and unlike many, she wanted out, she wanted the house she essentially bought with proceeds from the sale of her non marital home, and no alimony. She was told to pay $475/ moth support for two children….that was it. However, in the final hearing, the Judged reminded her that she was entitled to alimony, and asked her several times if she were sure of what she was giving up. She did, and her ex has not paid one dime in support since . Owes about $80K and because he is a hopeless drunk, she has never made an issue out of it. I will also mention her youngest daughter is 24 and challenged with health issues……she did it all alone, and confesses she preferred doing so just not to deal with him. BRAVO!
My kinda woman…..strong, smart, mature, and a lot of fun. To everyone going through a divorce, or thinking about it, it gets better in so many ways.
I can even be in the same room with my ex and not get upset anymore……

Like you, I made it clear I was going to the wall with alimony, so she gladly took a buyout.

Hang in there all. I still have my moments, but it gradually gets better…..even though it is so much different. Being treated nicely takes al lot of energy, trust, and patience. It’s normal.

If I can add an emotional note, the sad moments for me are what you mentioned. Staying home doing laundry over contributing to the financial security of the family. In my case it was health reasons, but not even that potential could break her off the trail of self entitlement.
It’s tragic in so many ways. I still do not understand what makes these woman believe anyone owes them a rose garden. She now reminds me (history re write) that she “sacraficed” her career to stay home with the boys, and that her contibution to one of our son’s home school experience has made all the difference in the world to his life.
Problem was I never questioned her contribution, or margialized it in any way. I simply needed help and was foolish to expect she would seriously recognize that and support me in that respect. In no way was she ever standing at the front door when these boys got home from school with an apple and peanut butter sandwiches. Her arguement was only valid between the walls of our home while all of her friends and all of her family worked and raised children. I know because she had a lot of time to babysit many of their children while they worked……Think about that? Not only was she fulfilling her vision of a stay home Mom for our children, she was also selflessly fulfilling that vision for her family and freinds as a surrogate Donna Reed on my dime because I simply gave up trying to reason with an out of touch child. I still want to pull my own teeth out thinking about that logic…..

Good move. You took a possible tax hit from liquidating assets, into a support/alimony payment which is a tax deduction for you, and taxable income to her. Bravo!
My ex took a lump sum because it was 100% tax free and on a tax basis worked out better for her, and met my criteria not to have to carry her lazy ass one more day than required.
It worked out great for me because I was a hair away from going on disability (the stress was causing seizures a few times a week) and her affair was the BEST thing to happen at the BEST time. She is a very needy person, so it was a lock he would charge in on a white horse and save her. As it eventually turned out he was so paranoid she would go back to me, he hacked her email and cell phone and got caught…….
When we made a settlement offer, she simply took it. My attorney (she was great and has a reputation for being very very tough) told me to shut my mouth and let my star struck wife bring the whole thing in for a landing…..she did.
She now lives in a house she can’t afford, and I really don’t think she thought the fact through she now has no health insurance, car insurance…..zippo! I actually laughed because she she amassed THREE speeding tickets in a year (yes, rules of the road don’t apply to her either lol) that our car insurance company dropped her a month after we were divorced. Into the high risk pool she went at the cost of $5,000/ year. My insurance went down by $1,600….ha ha ha……Not to go on and on, but she called me up and begged me to keep her on my car policy. If you follow through with a divorce, the best part is the word “No” is actually a complete sentence. lol
In truth, she is sitting on a slug of cash, so she can afford it, but like when we were married, that is “her money.”

I have to say although my retirement has been stunted, I got a really really good deal. My stress is down, seizures are under control. I’m pretty calm and happy, and I have been seeing a really nice woman who shares many of my values and interests who is a lot of fun…….

All the best, and it will be one way or the other.

The planning has to be slow, thoughtful, and very very hush hush. Again, I can’t stress enough to avoid punishing her with that nuclear threat. Better to tease her real thoughts out, patiently reflect them back, and make mental notes. It will help you focus on what you are doing and why. It might minimize the second thoughts (there will be plenty of those opportunities during family dinners, holidays, etc….
Or, you might actually get through to her and pull back. Stranger crap has happened along my path to the door.
In my case my ex just shut me out, and unleashed her best passive aggressive behavior on me. Avoid, change the subject, or even mockingly agree with me….

When my lawyer called me to tell me she had engage a firm, was the worst day of my life. It’s so emotional, but again focus with your attorney if it happens. Pick one or two things you will go to war over in the process. If you want to retain your pension, go after that hard, and neogotiate a solution, or not. In my case I inherited a pile (she could not touch) so I made it clear day one I would rather burn all my money rather than pay her alimony. I refused, and I went very very hard for that. You might also think of doing a little “crazy posturing” early on.
I do not pay alimony, but gave her a slug of cash, a house and half of my retirement. It was worth it!

Having a plan is not mean because you must know your rights, and again realize, everything is neogotiable. If you interview your attorney and they tell you the whole deal is simply math driven, get up and walk out and find another lawyer. You will get killed!!!

Yes, having a support group is important. A few guys at work who went through it were my cheer leaders and supporters. It’s important, but avoid telling too many people.

Good luck, and from my heart I hope you can work things out with you wife, but keep an open mind and open eyes.

When I made those move in the accounts, I was labled as a controlling, manipulative abusive person. (I guess she had to say something v I just don’t want to work as long as this sucker puts up with it). So, mentally prepare because you will be cast aside as the evil doer.

My biggest WTF moment was two days before we had our oldest son removed from our home for drug, behavior and alcohol issues into a $150,000 rehab/boarding school in Utah.
She threatened to leave if i did not fork over the cash to get him into the program, but refused to talk about how I was going to pay for it. Sorry, she told me that I didn’t have to pay it all up front…..(I swear to God. With a straight face and all…)
So I caved in AGAIN. I was on the phone and email with the program directors and the transportation company who were essentially going to kidnap my 17 year old son when she took a cell phone call, made up some bullshit excuse about getting our youngest son, and drove off. Turns out she went out to complete a cat adoption…….I kept it together, called he and calmly demanded she get back home. She did, but I knew at that very second that this woman was mentally unstable and I just failed to recognize who this person really was. A certified science teacher who graduated with highest honors looks me in the eye and half ass tells me she will get a job in a supermarket. I was totally on my own, having major medical issues of my own that nearly cost me my job (still not out of the woods) and it sounded like she was actually challenging my breaking point. Little did I know about her boyfreind…..The rest is history. Point being, you start down that road and be prepared with a plan. Talk to any attorney and see what a divorce looks like for you. Have an escape plan….if anything it may keep you sane knowing there is one. Also, TELL NOBODY of this plan. One huge mistake I made was letting the cat out of the bag as a threat to get her shit together. She later used that as her reason to have an affair, blamed me for leaving her and the kids, plus the act of threatening her was proof positive that I was a verbally abusive man. (there is a fine line).
The last thing the professionals warned me about that i thought would never happened, was what I would do when she came crawling back. They told me to think carefully about that real possability. I didn’t, and when it happened I was very tempted to let water flow under the bridge….but I quickly saw it was all about her and money, so I put the peddle to the metal and got it over with. How? I asked her what had changed and she had no answer. None….Something about investing a lot of time and 20 years she sacrificed bringing up our two boys….bla bla bla…..that sealed the deal. The best thing is you are in no hurry. Take your time. Line up your ducks, and don’t feel guilty doing these things. Trust me, lawyers and judges don’t give a solid shit if you are working or not. You will pay, or go to jail.

Jase
I would need two signed affidavits from attorneys before i would give you advice… lol.
You have a very frustrating situation on your hands, and if the roles were reversed, the result would without question paint you as a lazy, entitled loafer who is sponges off his wife….bla bla bla. That is society, and there is nothing we can do about that but choose to accept it, or not. The extreme in my case was my ex was having an affair, but even then, it was not her fault because the relationship was bad. You can’t speak to this stuff because it is an abject waste of your time perpetuated by the likes of Oprah and her man hate speak.

If you press the issue, do it in terms of asking her questions. “Would you be willing to talk about our finacial situation?” Would you be willing to work to give our children assurances they can go to the college of their choice?” “Would you be willing……bla bla bla. My point is, call her out and have her say the words, or simply say no. Oh, you do have a right to ask her why? “Would you be willing to tell me why?” If she blows you off, gets angry, or clams up altogether, you have a real situation on your hands. Just be mindful that when you put actions into effect :control the checkbook. A budget. Taking back credit cards.” You have crossed the Rubicon. All I can really say is you will know what is best for you. Divorce is going to hit you hard financially, emotionally, and will open you up to some real ugliness.

Good luck Brother

Hi all

Been over a month and reality has set in with my ex. Still no real job, and the list of complaints get longer all the time.
The last conversation I had with her, she told me that my bills have gotten smaller, and her’s larger. Guess what folks, I have been saying this for years. I gave her spread sheets, control of the checkbook in hopes I’d eventually hear the nickel drop and her realize what it takes to pay for things. I guess that’s still not working out for her….. lol
To top it off, I got a call from my car insurance agent. She said that my ex called her and asked if she could stay on my policy and that I had agreed to it. Legally I’m not sure you can insure a car I don’t own for a person I am no longer related to…… So, the real story is she racked up three speeding tickets in the last year (another SURPRISE!!!!!) and as soon as my divorce went through, my insurance company could not wait to dump her into the high risk state program which is triple the normal cost. One of the speeding tickets was so bad (she was well over 15 miles over the limit, she was cited for reckless driving as well.
You see folks, she is so entitled even the rules of the road are making her life a living hell………the pattern continues.
When I confronted her with this lie, she told me: “Just go along with it and shut your mouth.”

Oh……really? As an add on, the life insurance policy the court mandated she get to cover both our boys 9I did the same) has just been ignored. Reason is her high risk status makes her life more expensive (double) to insure.

Lastly, to complete transfer of half my retirement account into her name my attorney is required to get a court order to present my broker and employer. There is a filing fee involved for both of us totaling $190. She jumped all over me and insisted it was a hardship and I should pay for it since I had to give it to her………..She is bitching about $190 to obtain a $150,000 tax free retirement package she never worked a day to contribute into.

The best part about being divorced to this woman child, is that the word “no” is now actually an entire sentence.
For you guys on the fence, just want you to know it does not seem to change even though at the last minute she broke down and admitted how difficult she made my life, etc….It was nothing but the reality that she was facing reality and given a year had done NOTHING to prepare. SURPRISE!!!!

Hi Terry

For whatever its worth, my ex is now in therapy. In my case she made a point of telling me this at the last possible moment, so I dismissed it as just more manipulation.
If you spouse is in denial, I can assure you the chances of him “changing” is less than zero.
For years it was my fault, my issues, all of it.
If you are be assaulted, leave…….that simple. I was assaulted on several occasions, but as a man, I hung in there and we truly ashamed to even talk about it, and when I did I was called an oversensitive baby….and worse.
Abuse is abuse is abuse…….Shrink for men tries to peel away the social bias toward men in society, and the court system….

Be careful, but if you are seeking out these sites (as I and many other s have) you recognize there is a problem.

Good luck and hugs.

Thnaks
The emails and texts are upsetting because of ALL the brinksmanship she perfected over the years. The silence, stonewalling, or changing the subject when the discussions weren’t going in her favor truly left me feeling like I was going a bit mad. The last minute confessions Monday morning were the most telling because it spoke to every dead end I found myself in over the years. It actually made me angry and focused on just letting the clock tic until it was over. The challenge I have before me will be dealing with her self imposed poverty in relationship to the financial obligations she is now legally responsible for in relation to our children. Friends are taking bets that she will never work, and although some can say I am no longer “walking that dog” the reality is, she will never give up inventing ways to not work.

Hi
Yes, the last minute remorse was incredible. She thinks I’ve traded in a wife for a pen pal……Same thing. “You didn’t tell me……” Or, I had unrealistic expectations of what marriage was supposed to be. The last comment to me was : “Not everything means money to me.” What a crock…………….Duhhhhhhhhh. A frigging infant!!!!!!
Best to be done with it…..

Thanks. I think your husband is a very fortunate man to have an adult partner. I will confess that even up to the witching hour (no pun) I might have been swayed. Now that it’s over and I have that document with the gold seal, I am profoundly sad, but lighter that the insanity has been contained, and (sincere or not) validated that she actually admitted her regret over not working and helping our family through some really terrible terrible times.
Again, my test is putting the shoe on the other foot, and if our roles were reversed I’d have every expectation to be taken away to the Ha Ha Hotel.

Tomg

Hi
Thanks for all your encouragement, and frankly for this web site. Just so you know, I was getting text messages all night that were simply guilt trips and excuses for all the years of letting me hold the bag. The last few lines of her text accused me of holding a false storyline that I was wrong thinking her not working was the cause of our issues. I’d call it what it is and say “she refused” to work. Big difference!
She sighted ALL the wonderful opportunities she provided for our children staying home, but not ONCE did she mention how she was able to do all those wonderful things. All true by the way up until the ages of maybe 8-10 9(10-12 years ago) and even today when the are 17 and 19………….God knows, she sits at the kitchen table helping them do their college term papers and High School lessons……such BS!
Claims she always had small jobs that brought in a little money which went into her pocket, and that she never went wild shopping for herself, etc……but when it came to thousands of dollars a month for tuition, room and board and the fact that her laziness forces them to max out student loans, my answer to her is still “you are out of touch.” Being out dating other woman with children at or older than ours, totally shoots holes in her “logic.” These woman worked, kept up houses, saved money, all of that while their husbands indulged their drinking and drug habits at the families expense. Just total bunk. Her contention is still that if she worked she would then have to “do it all.” Sounds great until you ask her if she even considered trying. She just assumed i would drink beer, watch the game, and do nothing…….This from a man who would rather cut both my arms off rather than take charity from my family…….Besides, I don’t recall the day I promised anyone a rose garden. I don’t recall promising her her own bliss….she claimed that, and made me responsible for delivering the goods.
I’m really conflicted and sort of angry (today was the day), but it could not go on.

Oh my!!!! Get out as quickly as possible. I hung in with a LOSER for almost 22 years and all I have to show for it are several more years of work before I retire. The latest is my divorce will be final on the 29th. As of a week ago, I have been getting really nice, well thought out, kind emails from her dancing around the fact that as of Monday she has no job (yet), no health insurance, and nothing to fall back on to pay her 38% of our son’s tuitions. Ladies and Gents…..she’s screwed only for the fact that she still does not understand that she has the capacity to earn enough to actually have it made. She has a house debt free. A slug of cash in the bank (tax free payout of alimony), a nice 401K plan….and two cars. Again ALL DEBT FREE!!!!
I am dating a woman who’s husband was also a loser. Left her with a house leveraged with debt, credit cards, and a disabled daughter in need of good health benefits……He has not worked in 15 years. She is a school teacher making okay money who just can’t get her head around the fact that my STBX is not taking this all to seriously.
So today (48 hours before the final judgement) she flat out tells me she is “unsure” and that we should just postpone until we can “reexamine marriage.” WTF???????
Bottom line, I hold all the cards: The insurance card, the retirement card, the nondidtributable inherited trust fund (Ding Ding Ding!!!!) She also told me that now that she is paying her own car insurance, the carrier just informed her that all her speeding tickets has now qualified her for the “You are being dropped Club.” My insurance has been cut by 2/3rds because I observe rules…..Interesting. I wish her luck in growing the hell up and getting a life. She nearly ruined mine. Be strong.

Mike
Sorry for your health issues. I am also the bread winner in our family, and my soon to be ex graduated from a very good school with highest honors, and is a certified science teacher who did not work a day for the 22 years we are/were married.
I did EVERYTHING to help her get back to work, until it got so bad we really didn’t like one another very much because (do some soul searching) we did not share the same values.

We can write our little hearts out on this site, but the bottom line was I was WAY TOO NICE supporting her for all that time. The final insult was an affair she now blames me for creating because I was emotionally detached, and now her ex boyfriend for praying on her weakness I was told I created………Wrap your heads around that readers…..lol

Now that we are literally days away from the final court date, she has put on the charm campaign and regrets what happened, but will not apologize for anything……..I have a great attorney who got me a very fair deal, but she got a home (free and clear) $150K in cash, and half my retirement savings to buy out of lifetime alimony.

I pay over $1K/ month child support, and during our last “talk” she told me that I knew full well she could not run a house on that child support money…………I told her that she wasn’t supposed to and that the $50K we imputed as her income was for real. She now MUST work..ha ha ha . Meaning, shes responsible for a large percentage of the children’s tuitions, some medical, plus her own COBRA health benefits, which she is completely unable to pay for since she has not even attempted getting a job since we signed our marital settlement agreement……SO, this weekend she turned on the charm and flat out asked me to pay 100% of the children’s tuition for the next two years while she looks for a job……I reminded her she has had 22 years to do that, and that her work habits had nothing to do with me anymore (No longer my dog to walk…)

You have a tough one friend, but you have every right to feel hung out to dry, and with time it will only get worse. Sorry, but you have a lot of property and marital assets. Stop buying and investing and start soul searching.

GET OUT!

Yeah
Everyone has a storyline. Sounded like her’s was a good one, at first. It will be somebody else’s turn to deal with that soon enough.
These people smash through other people’s lives, taking what they want (forget need) and then blaming the stooge dumb enough to throw away their own needs and common sense to give them everything they want to fullfil our need for a rational, mature relationship.
In my case, I choose to accept bad company over no company at all.

The STBE did not file an answer to my complaint for judgement. She actually waived her 45 day period so we had a court date on May 6th.
A week before that I started receiving some pretty long winded text messages from her. Not really messages, more like silly details about the kids activities…….something seemed “up.” In one text she asked me if I would be willing to talk over coffee or dinner (just her and I) because she wanted “to be open.” She assured me it was nothing bad, and that she was not looking for money. Oh brother!!!!!!
I gave it a day, but agreed to a public meeting.
She was there before I arrived (I am always prompt) and the conversation was really like a Seinfeld episode……nothing.
I did discover that she broke up with her lover because (Are you all sitting down?) “He was a control freak.” Seems he “took” her phone and was texting and calling me on it without her knowing it. Whatever the reason was, this poor bastard was taken for his own crazy house ride. He was chosen to save her and protect her from me who she calls “verbally abusive. Mentally unstable. Paranoid. and CONTROLLING…….”
Now, after all their abuse she appears to want to be friends again which is really not nessesary from my point of view. Again, she wants to be friends….then damn it, I better do so or suffer some consequences.

Now the corker. Could I please postpone the final hearing because she still hasn’t found a job, and the $550/ month COBRA payments are just out of her reach (forgot to mention the lump sum of cash I gave her, which like throughout our marriage is also considered out of bounds and “hers.”

She also has a medical situation she needs to resolve. Yes, she contracted an STD……….Jumping crickets!!!!!!!!! All those mental problems, and a scumbag as well. What a prize.
I would say nothing…..I was actually stunned. 5 hours later my attorney called me in a panic to say her attorney called her to say I was dismissing (not postponing) the hearing. Meaning push it out indefinitely………I blanched.

Dr Tarra……she has covered all the basis on this blog. She exhibits nearly all those traits.
Push on I will………

Hi
The call from my Attorney that my wife engage counsel was a shock. See, even until the end I held out hope she might see the light, get a job and toe the line. Denial at its finest.
She swung from one tree to the other BEFORE she engaged counsel, and like the story goes, found a guy willing to help her and coach her every step of the way with his penis.

As it turned out, this ape likes to read her text messages and emails when she’s not looking. (Maybe he went overboard with his advise) Or better, text foul language from her phone to me pretending to be her. Oh, and call me at work as well. . To her credit, she did recognize what she had done and broke up with the ape. Then out come the tears…….need I say more.

You seem relieved yet numb. Our youngest son (17) actually called his Mother out and pointed to how unfair it was for me breaking my hump every day only to get rewarded with this.
He told me that he admired me which means everything in the world to me.

May 6th is my final hearing. It was so cut and dry I submit an affidavit not to appear. What’s the point? Let her go if she wants to. She certainly has the time.

I won’t tell you that you did the right thing because even though you are filing, your guts are turning. I am also red hot angry at the whole 21 year story (some really good times mixed in). Its sort of helping me to the finish line.

Stay strong

Doesn’t sound like that great of a home life. Been there and can sense your aggravation, abandonment, and loneliness. Don’t know about that sleeping in another room deal, but from my experience, my worst nightmare came true when my STBE told me she was having a “relationship” with another man. I have two sons. One is in college in AZ, and the other is a Jr. in HS and my wife rescues animals as a hobby.
Bottom line. Up until very recently she had been having and affair with the animal control officer in our town THE DOG CATCHER! We will be officially divorced May 6th (next week).

I’d look into what that other bedroom is all about. Just prepare yourself for the possibility of something you might not want to know. I NEVER would have believed she could do that. Was I wrong! BTW, go with your instincts and start thinking in terms of protecting yourself.

Good luck brother

You are exactly right. Make sure you understand (you might even sense) that you have a partner who can play the part of the baby seal on the ice, whip up tears, passive aggressive, or can simply beat you into submission well before you say “I do.” The trick is being honest with yourself if you suspect this trouble on the horizon.

In my case I partially blame myself for simply loving the idea being in love with my wife and ignoring the signs. I worked hard, took little risks (meaning I often stayed at jobs I often hated for the sake of security) and simply did the best I could with what I had until the resentment overtook me. Meaning the disfuction came back to bite me and propel my wife into the arms of another person who could now take care of her, only with the security of our home we owned free and clear, and half of everything else I broke my ass to provide and opportunities I gave up to make sure everyone was taken care of.. Talk about the ultimate betrayal…….

I’m now casually dating and can see things very clearly. Woman who were also duped (other side of the story) and those that would prefer a “white horse” variety of man in their lives. I call that initial date “one and done.”

Boys are not taught to protect themselves emotionally for this danger, and are actually taught to subordinate their emotions, values and beliefs to their partner in exchange for some type of ideal (non existant) relationship that will eventually get better over time, later to regret and morn things in that relationship that never were. (Opening eye stage).

In my case I really think my STBE still does not get it (more denial on my part I’m sure) because she still calls me (from her boyfriend’s house) for advice on how to (get ready now…….) invest the money I was ordered to give her as part of our settlement. It it appears she’s a person who has the same tendencies as people who have sex with dead people…………………………..AND for all that behavior I am rewarded with the title over “verbal abuser.” People, when you have a partner coming at you emotionally like Freddy Kruger there comes a point where “reason and logic” must sound like the teacher on the Peanuts cartoon…..wha wha wha…………………….because my feelings never really counted, but the outcome was all but assured. It was her who had to suffer all these years with a partner who should have just shut his mouth and done what he was told.
As my counselor often says to me: ….: “Tom, assume you are a very angry person. Who wouldn’t be?”

I’m afraid however that these tendencies cannot be appreciated until you have been dragged down the road for the ride of your life.

Join the fraternity…….Your wife is lazy, entitled and abusive and the quicker you accept that the better off you will be. In her own wharped mind YOU are holding her back, and brother, you will pay the price eventually. The emotional side is telling you (at times) how lucky you are to have a stay home Mom willing to give up her life to make everyone elses so much better. However, ask yourself a question. Is it really? Does her frittering her time away benefit anyone but her? Really?
Children’s educations, retirement? Come on! Reverse the roles and you might find yourself strapped to a gurny in a mental hospital.
The point is this is not acceptable for you and you (most men) have no basis to object to it.
Look around……I work with woman with 2,3,4 children and they hold down jobs and everythibng else it takes to participate in a marriage and family. This is NOT setting a good example for your children – trust me. Nobody in my hose works, and being in the final stages of divorce sealed my fate because i have to maintain her and the children to a lifestyle they are accustomed to. Which is I pay for everything the rest of my life, and then some considering i have to maintain life insurance in case I die. So, I am enslaved even from the grave. Get it?
Want another window into how bad it can be? I have significant health problems which could but me on disability. THE COURT DOES NOT CARE!!!!!!!! I can have it reduced, but it will leave me with a few hundred a month to live on, pay COBRA and medications……In other words, I’m doomed and wifey sits on the couch thinking of ways her and her attorney can deliver the death blow……..
If your married less then 10 years…..RUN for your life.

Wait until your wife figures out what the real world costs and what responsibility really is. My wife even had an affair and when the reality struck her about three months into the process, she actually called me to ask me to slow down the process so she could find a job with health benefits. Yes folks, she is so ingrained with entitlement she actually has no clue what she was asking me to do.
She really does not give a rusty F%4# and thinks it my obligation to pay for health insurance while she and her boyfriend feast off the $100K cash settlement I gave her, plus a house and half of everything else……….She really can’t help herself.

You did the right thing by bringing this all to a head.

Stay the course. Good luck

Tom G

Responding to Anon

• Anon says

  March 13, 2013 at 4:23 am

  I experienced a similar thing. My wife has not worked at an outside job for a single hour, bringing home not even a penny since we were married 15 years ago. I had warned her early on that backup income was necessary in case we ran into a family emergency like illness or job loss. Well, guess what, I had cancer and was not expected to survive, and then became unemployed after I went back to work. I have since recovered and have been working. Yet having experienced two traumatic incidents in a row in short proximity to each other, she still refuses to go look for a job. She has many excuses and claims she looks for work on the Internet every day but has not sent in a single resume…….She hasn’t even created a resume. At first, she said she wanted to take classes and took an online class but dropped out of that (we lost almost $1K of tuition) because she would not do the homework. She will do anything as an excuse to put off looking for work. It’s been 15 years and the resentment is very high.

  To the poster recommending the “Two Income Trap” book, the basic premises of that book are:

  1. People who have two incomes often fail to save the extra income and instead increase their lifestyle expectations to match or exceed the extra funds that result from the extra income.

  2. The spouse earning the 2nd income will need to incur work related costs such as clothing, transportation, and meals which reduce the net cash realized from the 2nd income.

  3. Income taxes on the 2nd income reduce the actual amount of extra cash that you realize.

  4. There are childcare costs.

  5. it IS possible to earn two incomes but save wisely and avoid the two-income trap of spending the extra income.

  My response to this book is that while it is possible for a two-earner couple to squander the 2nd income, it is also possible for a single-earner couple to squander the single income. Earning a total household income does not necessarily result in a worse cash flow situation than a single-earner household. As the author indicates, careful financial planning is needed even if you have two incomes.

  As for the case of childcare, this is something that each couple should weigh for themselves. It is possible for a couple to end up worse off if childcare costs outweight the after tax cash flow from the 2nd income.

  Lastly, in an environment where many households are two earner households and are able to afford to pay more for goods and services, the cost of these goods, services and assets (i.e. housing) will be determined by supply and demand. The higher demand and the ability to pay more for them will raise prices for everyone, whether you are a single earner or a dual income household. So, everyone is affected. There really is no neutral on this one.
• tomg says

  March 13, 2013 at 9:04 pm

  Well written. Well put together. Now leave……………..Nobody gives a crap. We can cry our eyes out while standing on our heads.
  Your wife is either mentally unstable, or evil. Stop the denial.
  Mine did it all, plus entertained a boyfriend in her spare time………LEAVE NOW! If she wants to keep you interested, she will stop her behavior. If not, count your blessings.

Chuck

Sorry to read yet one more story like ours. The fact is, it’s not going to get any better.

Hi All
The divorce is moving along and it appears we will bring this in for a landing in about 45-60 days.
After a few outragious incidents with my wife and her “boy friend” (Yes, she was cheating on me) I went on several trips around the holidays to spare myself the ignomity of sitting on my hands while my STBE dressed up like the Sr. Prom to go to various holiday parties, etc… (All very true stuff).

Well, I guess I appeared to be having too good a time way from crazyland, so when I returned from a weekend in Boston, I was told the closing on my home was on and that I needed to coordinate deliveries of furniture, appliances, etc….so i text her I would be busy the coming Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Not away, but busy. I offered no explainations because first and foremost she continues to keep me in the dark. Stays over “his” house entire weekends with no idea what her basic plans are, etc…..
She replied that it was okay. Several minutes later I recieved a text that simply read “Pussy”!!!. I have learned NEVER to engage or respond to such nonsense. Shortly after she text again telling me to ignore the second text as it was meant for somebody else.
I arrived at work and was greeted by a voicemail from her boy freind basically telling me I had ruined the weekend (his weekend) and that I was being selfish, etc…..I asked him who he was and what he wanted and why was he calling me.
I asked him to stop harrassing me at work or I would seek a restraining order.

I text my STBE. No response. I called her. Right into voicemail……she was hiding.

Doctor, you know I am 7 years Sr. to my wife. Her Dad died when she was 4-5 and her new BF is slightly older than her, but a tall muscular outdoor type (He owns a lawn maint. tree service, and in my brief contact with him, appears to be as dumb as a bag of hammers.

Two things. First, she put him up to this. (She is playing off I am a verbally abusive person) and he is now buying into doing her dirty work.
or, Second, he has jumped in on his own and is protecting her???? (from what???.

Anyway, I told her he sounded like a “real prize” but that whatever happened will stop or a restraining order will be sought. She then admitted the situation was “out of control.”

Anybody want to comment? Most of my freinds simply have no words, by the pathology is blinking red. Danger Danger…..

Lastly, STBE pushed for the divorce and refused to even discuss trying to work things out. She proclaimed the “for once in my life I am standing on my own two feet” (She is feeding me straight lines BTW) NOW……she has discovered that she will have to pay $500/ month to insure herself. Pay taxes, insurance and utilities on a house I gave her as part of the settlement, car insurance…..so on and so fourth. SOOOOOOO….she calls me (rare event) and asks me to slow down the final divorce because: “I have to find a job that offers benefits.” HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

You speak the language of a good “relationship” where both are interdependent, fair, hardworking and loving people willing to give and allowed to get.

Here’s the deal. I live in NJ which a gulag camp for divorced men. I was (soon to be unmarried) for 21 years. In NJ it is alimony for life (these all sound like prison terms. “For life.” “5 to 10.” etc………
If your attorney tells you there is some type of spreadsheet for figuring alimony, walk right out of their office and find another attorney. There IS NO FORMULA or “guideline”, its what you can talk her into doing with the least amount of fuss. If her appetite is cash, give her some pre tax (lump sum), and a house (also pre tax).
Your reasoning is spot on, but if your wife is bat shit, you need to find the most aggressive attorney you can find to back you up.

I pulled it off. Gave my STBE the house, $90K in cash, 1/2 my retirement, and child support that imputed her income as a certified science teacher at $50K/ year. In other words, “get a job.” That said, I had significant non distributable assets I could have raised a huge legal defense with (wear her down) – BUT, the secret weapon for me (my opinion) is her boyfriend who she believes is like minded (I was at one time……….) who owns his own business, is divorced himself, and might need a hand up from the alimony he’s paying out of his backside. His wife lives is a very very nice home in a great part of town, so it is clear she got that and more in the divorce. The word is he likes to drink and like woman about 10 year younger then my STBE…………..Too funny.

Side note. She loves they guy because he’s so loving, calm and respectful. Her and I had a disagreement on a free weekend, so rather then talk about it (I’ve never met this guy) he picks up the phone and calls me at work to chew me out for wrecking his weekend…….Can you say brass ones? I believe this ape actually thought HE could somehow make ME do what he wants……..Can anyone else hear warning bells?

Anyway, spread your assets on the table and carefully make a weak offer. The next person who speaks loses. If she wants to kill you, you will know in seconds, if the counter offer is somewhere inside orbit, you might be able to buy her out. BTW: I should have gone with alimony because she and this guy love one another, and since the wife likes to be taken care of, I figure she will be remarried in three years, but I wasn’t going to roll the dice because of the unhealthy chemistry I see happening between them.

AGAIN, everything is negotiable.

Hi
All I wanted was an equal partner to share everything with. I knew I was in trouble early on when my STBE snapped at me that if she worked she would shoulder all the burden. Well, gee wiz……where do I find her a rose garden?
The point was she didn’t even try. Rather she assumed this man was lazy and would oppress her into slavery…….pure nonsense!
Then the private school stuff started and when we split the loaf (one home schooled and one in public) I found her expectations unrealistic and methods of getting her way manipulative and abusive.

NOT all woman who stay home are abusive and lazy, but it should be worth noting that a college educated woman with two young men in high school and school need not rescue cats all the live long day + have an affair to boot.

You felt what is was like to have a mate just do enough to keep himself busy (My STBE) never seriously considered even looking for a job. She was a stay home Mom (fine) but demanded better schools which required her to work. She just never put 2 and 2 together until we filed for divorce. Now her animal rescue activities have petered out, and she has all but taken up with another man on the other side of town.
All she did was replace snooks to take care of her. Claiming to stand on her own two feet, I received a call one morning from her BF (we are not divorced yet) chiding me that my change in plans one weekend (it was an emergent situation I felt did not deserve my STBE knowing because she takes off whenever she wants and flate tells me its none of my business).
Now imagine my utter shock at this guys big brass ones: I asked him who he was, and why he was calling. His answer made him sound like a fool. My change of plans was interfering with his weekend with my wife at his house and he was angry at me………..
Alert alert Will Robinson!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She’s hooked up with a real gorilla (he owns a tree service and is rather on the big side) and feels it’s his right to hop scotch over my wife and deal with me directly. Folks……………does anyone out there believe for one second me, or anyone for that matter, would cave into such threats? She found a “real man” to take care of her this time……….Holy control freak Batman!!!!!!!!! She chose a real winner.

So, in sum, people who don’t pull their weight or who are selfish (maybe your hubby has clinical depression) and do the very bear minimum are (call a spade a spade) slackers.

Most woman get a pass, but men usually do not. I was listening to the radion one night, and a caller (woman) called into confess that since her husband lost a job, through no fault of his, she now thinks him less of a man, and by extention no longer attractive to her.

Woman would rather see their husbands and fathers in armor die on the backs of their white horses, rather then fall off.

Also, not EVERY woman does this. One straight jackets does not fit all.
My wife is a teacher and working (even part time) could have worked perfectly to balance our time at work and her time with our children/with summers off. I just made too much sense.
When this topic (reality) came up shortly after our first son was born 19 years ago, she told me that if she did teach she would then “have to do it all.” Meaning, work, children, clean, cook………….Truth, I clean bathrooms, and at the time did almost all the cooking.
So, she stayed home and did what she “wanted.”
This is not the 1950’s! We needed the income, and it was insulting to blame me for being inflexible (I cook and clean bathrooms while I’m not working) and more insulting to unilaterally “choose” and dismiss all those facts because she thought she would have to do more………………….she demanded a rose garden.

No, there are plenty of hard working mothers and wives in the world and it was right under her nose. ALL HER SISTERS married slackers, and all of them work and take care of children, etc……they often lamented how they would like to pumpkin pick, go to the zoo and the park at will like their sister.

Observe your wife without judgement. The dots won’t connect and you can take it from there.

Alimony for life…………….what a concept. The wince on my Attorney’s face when I told her she never worked after 21 years sent shivers down my spine. I make a good living AND I was blessed with some significant inherited cash (which is outside of equitable distribution).

I had to play “bat shit” and made it clear that I would rather burn through every dime rather then give her anything “for life.” My Attorney signed onto that and I was very happy the day she put my STBE back on her heels. My wife graduated college with highest honors as a biology teacher and never really bothered to even look for work. Her income was imputed as if she were working, and my child support went down. Meaning the message is she must find work. (I hope your all sitting down reading this part) She is now cleaning houses for cash rather then find work……She did this in high school + babysit. I kid you all not! Proof positive she does not like the serious responsibility of having to be somewhere at a certain time for a specific purpose.

In the end I gave her the house (debt free) half of the retirement savings and some cash to move onto her next victim. Which she wasted ZERO time doing BTW. I mean within less then three months she is now spending all her free time, plus entire weekends with this new guy.

One day we had a disagreement over her insistence I buy our one son a car. I simply said no which erupted into some blathering speech about how I just could not stand that “for once in my life I’m standing on my own two feet.” Did you ever see or hear something so incredible or horrible you simply blanked out? I was literally staggering over how out of touch this woman/child really is. Now she’s “standing on somebody else’s two feet.”
I feel a little sad for the schmuck…….but I’m very upset my wife introduced him to our boys over Christmas. From what I know he is divorced, has a high school age daughter and paying hellish alimony………..He is also a ladies man which should be interesting since the STBE has started taking her animals with her to his house over the weekends. A little too much too fast even if she claims to have known him for years (so she says). My STBE does not so much ask, as she imposes in this regard. I’m positive he must be saying “Well, if I really love her I’ll do this for her. Camel’s nose under someone else’s tent…….Just wait buddy………………………………..

Her and I text message. Or should I say she text’s me about silly day to day goings on with our 16 year old son, even though I’m well plugged into his school, friends and such. I never respond to her or even acknowledge her effort. Which she NEVER did before. No phone calls during the day, text, email…..zippo. Now she’s my pen pal?

In the last month as all this stuff was going on in her sick mind (introductions and such + SO much more) I flew to Vail for Christmas and New Year. Drove to Boston for a long weekend, and am now out in Vagas hacking around. She text me that she was glad I was moving on with my life (then added AGAIN) that she had moved on with hers.
She has not “moved on.” She has moved across town like a 14 year old girl trying to prove something to her parents. At least that’s how it appears.

Rip the bandaid off quickly.

Well, you found this site, but I’ll warn you. The more you read and post the worse you are going to feel at some point when reality kicks in and you and your wife have “the talk” on even ground after all the self awareness and soul searching you can muster rolls off your tongue.

In my case the term I used to describe our relationship was “we are very nice dead people.”

It was literally three days after that come to Jesus when I learned (from her) that she had, and was looking to rekindle a relationship she had with our tree service man 6 years before.

All the years of not working and driving me crazy was over because she was “done.” Meaning I was no longer buying into her madness, so a swift kick to the curb was now in the offing…………..We are literally days from finalizing the divorce and I can say I’m naturally not thrilled with what happened, but I refuse to let what she did and the term divorce define me as a person. Yes, I resent the result of all my struggle and probably always will (I feel set up), but there is just no way I can risk more of my health and wealth waiting for her to snap out of it. I feel I was waiting for something to happen that would make the reason I found this site and posted feel silly. Truth is that something did not exist and (sounds like a shallow throw away line) so I’m better off in the long term.

As a business person I looked at the mechanics of divorce as I would a bad business decision. I took my licks, and moved forward. A real woman/person does not behave like my STBEW and hopefully I have learned something from it. And no, I do not want to be considered her friend as she would like me to. THAT’S MY CHOICE.

The laws are NOT written with men in mind. If you think she’s entitled now, let her get a lawyer and then tell me how easy it is to bend over on their command. Men have ZERO choices. You feel frustrated and humiliated now? Just wait until they whip out a form and just do the math………10 + years? Alimony for life. Make $120K you pay $220/week child support. yadda yadda yadda………….They will want everything you made, what you make and anything else you will ever make…………get it?
If you marry badly you will pay for it financially and emotionally the rest of your GD life, into retirement, and then some.

Either put up with it, or get out. Simple.

ShaunThat stuff only gets worse over time. You must stop making life easy for her. No income, no credit cards. DO IT NOW before it’s too late.
You will end up the bad guy no matter what. Do it now. No more threats. Makes things worse.

I’m in a bad place all. Seems the wife’s new boyfriend was introduced to my children while I escaped from her holiday “courtship dating.” Her words…..you can’t make this crap up people.
Took it upon herself to do that without a hint (no doubt spite for not hanging around for her head screw a rama if you ask me) THEN accuses me of doing some”thing” she feels is not consistant with the betterment of our children during our divorce. Reminding me along the way they “we don’t have to hate one another, and we can still celebrate birthdays together, go out to eat, and all the other fun family stuff she grew up fat dumb and happy on all these years on my dime.
Did I leave out her dropping her panties in the driveway after one of her “sleepover” weekends? Her new thing is that “she” does not want to have to hide and sneak around with this relationship…………….Oh how eff’ing mature she has become……

People……this is crazy time. Any observations, comments, one liners?

You found this site like the rest of us did, and it was no accident. You are not happy, your wife refuses to help out and share duties with you, but at the same time you appear more willing to tell us how you feel.
After 21 years of the same BS, my wife decided that it was now her time to be happy in a relationship, so she went out and has one. Laughs right in my face with it because she says she has nothing to lose by moving on. Divorce laws in NJ USA are clear cut. Alimony for life for anyone married over 15 years, half of everything, and child support that in total will bankrupt you.
My advise? Get out now (Just walk) or figure out a way to live with it and make the best of it. Simple. Trying reason either way is a waste of time, and over 50% of marriages fail anyway. My advice? RUN
Oh, and all the advice you get her that gives you that “OMG” feeling. Forget it. It’s all good “free”theory. You and your wife need to work this stuff out now.

Zay
There is something wrong. It does not get better as time goes on.
That’s a I have to say.

I wish you luck